Fordham–St. John's rivalry

Fordham–St. John's rivalry
Sport Multi-sport
First meeting 1909 (basketball)
St. John's 21, Fordham 13

The Fordham-St. John's rivalry is a inter-conference rivalry between the Fordham Rams and the St. John's Red Storm who are both located in New York City: Fordham playing in The Bronx and St. John's playing in Queens. Conference-wise, the Rams play in the Atlantic 10 Conference, while the Red Storm play in the Big East Conference.

The rivalry spans across all sports, but is especially prevalent in men's basketball, where they two sides have met 88 times over the last century. In men's basketball, the Red Storm have been dominant over the Rams, boasting a 69-19. The recent improvements to Fordham's program over the last decade have made the rivalry more competitive over the years.[1] St. John's also dominates Fordham in women's basketball, boasting a 19-5 record over the last 40 years. In other sports, the two teams have met less frequently, but still draw large crowds for such matchups. Fordham has had an advantage over St. John's in football, winning two-thirds of the match-ups against one another. The football rivalry has been dormant though, since the two teams last played in 1988, and St. John's disbanded its football team in 2002.

History

A basketball game between Fordham and St. John's in 2011.

Both universities have roots in the 19th century with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York. Fordham University was founded by the Catholic Diocese in 1841, while St. John's University was founded by Vincentian Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church in 1870. Fordham is the third-oldest university in New York City, and the city's only Jesuit university.

The two men's basketball sides regularly met throughout the 20th century, and into the early, 2000s.[2] In 2013, St. John's sophomore, Chris Obekpa, made headlines for remarks on Fordham. He described Fordham is a place for New York City basketball players to go that are not accepted by St. John's.[3] Obekpa said he played with several of the Fordham players in high school and that "they are mad that they are not here. Playing us is their opportunity to prove a point".[3][4] The next day, St. John's would go on to defeat Fordham 104-58, making it the most lopsided result in the series history.[5]

In the mid-2010s drama spewed between the two men's basketball coaches,[6][7] and Fordham defeated St. John's in 2015. This made it only the third time in the 21st century, Fordham's basketball team beat St. John's.[8] St. John's would go on to win the 2016 edition of the meeting.[9]

College comparison

CategoryFordhamSt. John's
TypePrivatePrivate
AffiliationCatholic (Jesuit)Catholic (Vincentian)
LocationThe BronxQueens
Students15,58221,087
School ColorsMaroon & WhiteRed, White, & Blue
NicknameRamsRed Storm
Basketball ArenaRose Hill GymnasiumCarnesecca Arena
Baseball DiamondHoulihan ParkJack Kaiser Stadium
Soccer FieldJack Coffey FieldBelson Stadium
Softball FieldBahoshy FieldRed Storm Field

All-time results

Summary

SportAll-time series record[10]Last resultNext meeting
Baseball St. John's leads 52–22 St. John's won 18–7 on April 21, 2010 TBD
Men's Basketball St. John's leads 69–19 St. John's won 90–62 on December 8, 2016 TBD
Women's Basketball St. John's leads 19–6 Fordham won 67–64 (OT) on December 12, 2017 Dec. 2018 @ Fordham
Football Fordham leads 8–6–1 Fordham won 46–15 on October 30, 1988 N/A
Men's Soccer Tied 8–8–1 Fordham won 1–0 on September 1, 2017 TBD
Women's Soccer St. John's leads 9–2–4 St. John's won 5–0 on August 25, 2013 TBD
Softballball St. John's leads 14–8 St. John's won 14–11 on May 2, 2018 TBD

Series led and games won by Fordham are shaded ██ maroon. Series led and games won by St. John's shaded ██ red.

Baseball

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source:[11]

Basketball

Men's basketball

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source[12]

Women's basketball

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source:[13]

Football

Fordham, originally known as St. John’s College of Rose Hill, began their football program in 1882. Playing at a small school level, early opposition came from local athletic clubs, military and naval units, YMCA groups and even its own reserve team. When up against other colleges, Fordham’s main rivals were Xavier (a school which later dropped its college division but still exists as a high school and to this day is a rival of Fordham Prep), CCNY, Saint Peter's and Seton Hall. The school officially changed its name to Fordham University before the 1908 season and by then they had already sprinkled in a few more established teams, like NYU, Columbia, Rutgers, Princeton, Cornell and Syracuse, to their schedule. For the most however, Fordham still played a small school schedule until the 1920s. Early in that decade they made a slight move up to what today would best be called the D-II level while mostly scheduling other elite Catholic schools like Boston College, Holy Cross, Villanova and Georgetown. By decade’s end they made another and far more drastic jump into what we today call the D-I/FBS level.

From 1929 to 1942 the Rams reeled off 14 straight winning seasons while often playing in front of near capacity crowds at the 55,000 seat Polo Grounds. During that era only Alabama had a higher winning percentage in all of major level college football. National college polls began after the 1935 season where Fordham finished with a Top-20 ranking. They followed that with six straight additional Top-20 rankings from 1936 to 1941. Only Duke also finished in the Top-20 in each of those first seven years of post-season polls. Also included during Fordham’s run was the formation of the famed "Seven Blocks of Granite" during the 1936 and 1937 seasons, participating in the first ever televised football game in 1939, a Cotton Bowl appearance in 1940 and a Sugar Bowl win in 1941.

Like many other schools, Fordham put their program on hiatus while the country fought WWII. Rams football returned in 1946 but on a deemphasized basis. Still in the FBS level, Fordham replaced their national schedule with a more regional one. Despite leading the country in passing in 1949, and again in 1952, and almost landing a spot into the 1950 Gator Bowl, results were mixed at best during the post-war years. Attendance declined drastically, perhaps the result of not only an inferior product on the field but also white-flight and the rise of television. After a horrific 1-7-1 season in 1954, where Fordham only drew about 12,000 per game, the program was scrapped.

The sport remained absent from campus life until 1964 when students formed a club team. Decent success at the game’s lowest level, including a club football national championship in 1968, allowed the university to bring football back to varsity status for the 1970 season. There they played at what would become the D-III level where in 1987 the Rams landed a spot in the D-III playoffs. That success propelled the school to jump to the I-AA (now known as FCS) level in 1989. The promotion into the Division I subdivision proved unsuccessful for over a decade as it took until 2001 for Fordham to finish with a winning record. Since then things have changed dramatically as the Rams qualified into the 2002, 2007, 2013, 2014 and 2015 playoffs. Despite never winning an FCS national championship, Fordham has finished in the Top-20 in each of those seasons as well.

St. John’s, originally known as St. John’s College of Brooklyn, began their football program in 1895. Located inside two buildings within the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, and lacking a green campus, St. John's staged their home games on makeshift fields at the Prospect Park Parade Grounds. Playing at the absolute smallest of levels, most competition came local athletic clubs and even local high schools. This included Fordham Prep which went 2-0 against St. John’s during their early football years. Simply fielding a team itself proved somewhat difficult as St. John’s spent those early years sporadically dropping and re-starting their program.

Finally, in 1923 the school made a more sincere effort to build a true football program. Although continuing play at a small level, new schedules against secondary Catholic schools like Providence and Niagara were an improvement to previous ones featuring high school teams. Saint John’s moved their home games to 30,000 seat Ebbet's Field and despite only averaging about 3,000 fans per game, they did schedule a few intriguing contests against more established programs like Fordham and Holy Cross. Even defeating Fordham in 1923 and playing Holy Cross close in 1925 did little to create much in public support and in 1929 St. John’s moved their home games to Dexter Field, a minor league baseball park in Woodhaven, Queens. Although attendance improved to about 5,000 per game, football continued to lose money and the program was discontinued following the 1931 season.

In 1956 the entire university moved to a large, green campus in Hillcrest, Queens. Set on what had previously been a golf course, the new campus suddenly offered St. John’s the space to build an authentic campus. In 1965, a year after Fordham students created a club team, St. John’s students did the same. Their first game back came against Manhattan College, who coincidentally, had also served as St. John’s last opponent before eliminating football in 1931. Manhattan had won that 1931 encounter, 8-7, but 34 years later, St. John’s avenged that loss with a 19-8 victory. The team remained mostly successful at the club level and played for a regional championship in 1974 before finally receiving varsity status prior to the 1978 season. Playing at the D-III level, St. John’s again remained mostly successful. Although they never advanced to the D-III playoffs, they did qualify into regional ECAC bowls in 1983 and again in 1989.

In 1993 the "Dayton Rule” disallowed D-I schools from playing lower level football. Instead, these schools, including St. John’s, were forced into the I-AA (now FCS) level despite not truly being able to fund I-AA programs. While these schools were able to band together and avoid competition against legitimate FCS teams, none was ever ranked or invited into the FCS playoffs during those early years. Instead, they were considered “Mid-Majors” and the best they could muster in post-season play involved regional ECAC bowls. Much like they had done as a D-III, St. John’s qualified into the 1994 ECAC-IFC championship game and after previous defeats, won their first post-season game ever. Over the next decade however the "Mid-Major” ranks began disappearing as many of the former D-III schools started the slow process of building legitimate FCS programs. Others chose to instead drop the sport entirely. St. John's chose the latter and terminated their program after the 2002 season. [14]

[15]

[16]

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source[17]

Soccer

Men's soccer

Fordham's men's soccer program began in 1956, while St. John's program began in 1979. The Red Storm first played Fordham in 1980, as inter-conference opponents of the Tri-State Soccer Conference. In 1985, St. John's moved to the Big East Conference, while Fordham moved to the MAAC. The two teams met in the first round of the 1996 NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament, where St. John's won 5-1 en route to a NCAA championship. The teams most recently met in 2017, where Fordham defeated St. John's, making it Fordham's first victory over St. John's since 1990.[18]

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source[19]

Women's soccer

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source:[20]

Softball

St. John's softball program began in 1981. They following year they won the New York State (AIAW) Championship. As a regional power they qualified into the championship round of the 1988 and 1989 ECAC Tournaments, falling on both occasions. The Big East began sponsoring softball the following year and during that inaugural year St. John's was once again a post-season finalist before again bowing out. Afterwards St. John's slipped into a long era of mediocrity. The Red Storm did not again advance to the Big East championship round until 2014, where once again, they came up short. Returning a solid core, St. John's came back to sweep through the Big East regular season and post-season in 2015, giving them their first crown since 1982. The post-season tournament win also secured an automatic bid into the NCAA tournament, the first ever for St. John's. The Red Storm continued their winning ways while advancing into the Big East tournamant's final round in both 2016 and 2017. Both times however they came up short and were not able to land at-large bids into the NCAA tournament.

Fordham's softball program began in 1985. They played in the MAAC until the school changed conference affiliation to the Patriot League following the 1990 season. The Patriot League stint only lasted five years before the school again changed affiliation, this time to the Atlantic 10 in 1996. Before that Fordham suffered through 10 losing seasons, one .500 season and zero winning seasons. Initially, the jump to the A-10 only made matters worse, where Fordham haplessly struggled to a 12-60 combined record during 1996 and 1997. The run of incompetence continued until head coach, Bridget Baxter, was hired to turn things around following the 2001 season. After another losing campaign in 2002, Fordham finally posted their first winning season in 2003. It was their first of what is now 16 straight winning seasons. In that time, Baxter, now going by her married name, Bridget Orchard, has taken Fordham to the NCAA tournament 8 times. Their first appearance came in 2010 as an at-large bid. That was followed with post-season A-10 conference titles and automatic NCAA bids in 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Ironically, their one miss during the run was in 2012 when Fordham posted its most impressive win ever, an 8-5 victory over 3rd ranked Alabama. During this current decade no other Northeastern team has qualified into the NCAA tournament as often as Fordham has.

Fordham victoriesSt. John's victories

Source:[21]

References

  1. Lajoie, Ron (December 29, 2010). "As Basketball Team Rebounds, Fordham Steps Forward". Catholic New York. cny.org. Retrieved November 22, 2017.
  2. Litsky, Frank (December 8, 2002). "COLLEGE BASKETBALL; St. John's Pulls Away Against Fordham". The New York Times. The New York Times Company. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  3. 1 2 Rubin, Rogin (December 6, 2013). "St. John's ready to battle Fordham in Madison Square Garden Holiday Festival". New York Daily News. tronc. Retrieved November 23, 2017. Most of those (players), I know them. We played in New York," said Obekpa, who went to high school at Our Saviour New American (L.I.) and played on area travel teams. "They're mad I am in this position (playing at St. John's). They think they are supposed to be here. They don't like that. I am taking their spot and they're supposed to be here and not me. "This is their town. (St. John's) is their school.
  4. Obekpa, Chris; Pointer, Dominic; Greene IV, Phil (December 6, 2013). "Pregame Quotes: St. John's vs. Fordham". redstormsports.com. Retrieved November 24, 2017.
  5. Goldin, Howard (December 15, 2014). "New York City Hoops Rivalry: St. John's Easily Defeats Fordham at MSG". nysportsday.com. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  6. Kussoy, Howie (December 8, 2016). "St. John's twists the knife in revenge blowout of Fordham". New York Post. NewsCorp. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  7. Logan, Greg (December 12, 2010). "Tom Pecora is a thorn in St. John's side". Newsday. Altice USA. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  8. Costello, Charles (December 15, 2014). "Fordham Basketball: 3 Memorable Wins in Rivalry with St. John's". Bleacher Report. Turner Broadcasting System. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  9. Kussoy, Howie (December 7, 2016). "Coach drama adds spice to St. John's-Fordham rivalry". New York Post. News Corp. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  10. Sources: fordhamsports.com and redstormsports.com
  11. "St. John's Red Storm Baseball Record Book" (PDF). grfx.cstv.com. Retrieved May 19, 2018.
  12. "2017-18 St. John's Men's Basketball Media Guide" (PDF). Retrieved November 21, 2017.
  13. "St. John's Women's Basketball Media Guide (2017-18)" (PDF). grfx.cstv.com. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  14. "Saint John's Historical Data". College Football Data Warehouse. Retrieved 2012-08-27.
  15. "Fordham University All-Time Football Records". LuckyShow.
  16. "St. John's University (New York) All-Time Football Records". LuckyShow.
  17. "Fordham Football Media Guide" (PDF). pp. 162–175.
  18. "Fordham Edges St. John's, 1-0". redstormsports.com. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  19. "St. John's Men's Soccer Media Guide - 2017" (PDF). grfx.cstv.com. CBS Sports. Retrieved November 23, 2017.
  20. "St. John's Red Storm Women's Soccer Record Book" (PDF). grfx.cstv.com. Retrieved December 23, 2017.
  21. "St. John's Red Storm Softball Record Book" (PDF). grfx.cstv.com. Retrieved May 16, 2018.
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